What You Need To Know About Deaf Representation

In conversations around disability, the Deaf community tends to be forgotten about, but this episode is all about the importance of Deaf voices and Deaf representation in the media.

As we always say, ‘Nothing about us, without us’, so for today’s episode we have Bobbie, from the Campaigns Team at Purple Goat, and Toyosi Alexis, creator and consultant. They both shared their lived experiences of being Deaf and living in a hearing world, some of their favourite Deaf representation examples, as well as some of the worst…, and what brands can do to be truly authentic and inclusive of the Deaf community.

And remember, celebrate the Deaf community always, not just during Deaf Celebration Week.

If you want to learn more and know how you can start including Disabled and Deaf voices in your marketing and comms, make sure to contact us!

[Transcript below]

Trailer (00:00):

Bobbie Solkhon:

When I got my hearing aids turned on, I ripped them out. And I said, I would rather be Deaf. I would rather sign, I don’t like it.

Toyosi Alexis:

Being a Black Deaf woman, I feel like it’s a very unique experience because you’re Black, you’re Deaf, and then you’re a woman. So there’s just three different layers to that.

Bobbie Solkhon:

My advice to anyone who is young and loses their hearing, is to get on social media because that’s kind of what did it for me. And now I get people messaging me on Instagram going, well, ‘how are you so confident?’ It’s because you will just come to a day where you just won’t care what people say, because at the end of the day, it’s to benefit you. It’s not to benefit anyone else.

Toyosi Alexis:

And you have a video where someone is talking about your products. Include captions on the video because there’s absolutely no point of you having Deaf people in your campaign, if you are not even making the entire shopping journey online smooth for them.

Introduction (01:00):

Carmen de Castro:

Hello everyone and welcome to The Purple Goat Podcast. I’m Carmen, and today I’m joined by two very special guests, Toyosi and Bobbie. They’ll introduce themselves in a moment, but thanks again for coming back.

If you are watching us on YouTube, you might see a very nice background behind us. We are at ID Studios in Hackney, in London. Very cool place. If you’re looking for any podcast filming, any content filming, this is really good. It’s accessible as well.

But today, as you know, we are always talking about the Disabled community, disability representation and including those voices in the media and all conversations. But today we wanted to talk about the Deaf community, Deaf representation, inclusion of Deaf voices, because I don’t know if you knew, but 24% of the population is Disabled and 12 million people in the UK are Deaf or have some type of hearing loss.

I don’t know about you, but I don’t see that people represented in the media. So today we’re going to talk about all of that, Deaf characters, the Deaf community, and lots of amazing things. So to start with girls, would you like to introduce yourselves and just tell a bit about your lived experiences and all of that?

Bobbie Solkhon:

Of course. I’ll go first. So I’m Bobbie, I’m a Senior Campaign Executive here at PG, and I’m also Deaf.

I went Deaf when I was 16. And the correct actual term, it’s a bit of a mouthful. It’s bi-literal sensorial hearing loss that I have, which means it’s in both ears, and it’s so conductive is like something happened and it’s like a car, not cars broken down, but it’s something’s actually happened to it. So sensorial is kind of the mechanics of it does not worked.

So yeah, it happened when I was 16. We don’t know how, don’t know if it’s got links to autoimmune, but yeah, we just don’t know. And now we’re living life thriving.

Toyosi Alexis:

Hi everyone, I’m Toyosi. And I was diagnosed with severe hearing loss at the age of four, but they don’t know why either. So I can relate with you on that.

My mum just realised that I was having problems with my speech and then they went to run hearing tests, and then they found out that I have severe hearing loss in both ears. So I’ve worn hearing aids since the age of four and yeah, that’s pretty much it.

Carmen de Castro:

Nice.

I wanted to start talking about media representation of Deaf characters. So what would you say are some common misconceptions when it comes to Deaf individuals represented in the media? And are there any Deaf characters that you think are not the best, some that maybe are good?

Bobbie Solkhon:

I think I have said this so many times, and I always use it as my example. I am the biggest EastEnders stan. They release it early at 6:00am, I am up at 6:00am to watch it. But a couple of years ago they did a storyline on Ben. And don’t get me wrong, Max Bowden is an amazing actor and he absolutely smashed the storyline. But because of Covid they kind of cut it, and it was like where they hadn’t used an actual Deaf actor.

And bear in mind Ben Mitchell has been Deaf since he was a child, and they’ve recasted him six times and those six times they have never hired a Deaf person to play this character.

So then they’ve done a storyline that he lost more hearing, but where he’s not Deaf, obviously they have a cochlear implant clipped into his hair. And I don’t know if, obviously this is just from science of the brain, just assuming it’s clipped in his hair, but where he’s got skin fade, it moves, and sometimes it’s not where you would wear that cochlear implant.

It’s one of them situations where I think they did really well on the storyline, but I think it just proves how important it is to have when you are having a Deaf actor play a Deaf role. It is so important, rather than having someone who is hearing playing a Deaf role.

And I think especially with hearing aids and cochlear implants, if you hire a Deaf actor, they’re going to come with it anyway. They’re going to come for free. You don’t have to get the fake things, it’s going to come with them. Same with any other disability. You need someone who’s a wheelchair user in a role, they’re going to come with a wheelchair if you hire someone who is a Disabled actor. And again, with that storyline, they finished it off after Covid, he had his cochlear implant turned o,n and he turned around and could hear again, that’s not what happens.

When I got my hearing aids turned on, I ripped them out and I said, “I would rather be deaf. I would rather sign, I don’t like it”, because your brain automatically blocks noise out, and then when you can’t hear that your brain is like, what’s going on? where all these sounds that I’ve not automatically blocked out?

So these movies and films where babies have their cochlear implants turned on and they cry, they’re more likely crying because they’re like, what is going on? Not because they can hear their parents’ voices. It’s actually overwhelming. So I think in the media it’s so important to have authentic representation when you are hiring for these roles and portraying these storylines.

Toyosi Alexis:

Yeah, definitely. I think there was a movie, I can’t remember what the name of the movie was, but it had Michael B. Jordan. Do you guys remember? Creed III? I think it was three. There was a Deaf girl, I think his daughter was Deaf, and my issue wasn’t really the portrayal of her character, it was just more so the fact that there were captions for the sign language, but there weren’t captions throughout the movie.

So I thought to myself, if you are getting a Deaf character to come in and represent the Deaf community to some extent, then why are you putting captions for just the sign language and not the entire movie? And that just made me think about the fact that the hearing world or hearing people do things out of convenience for them, and not really for Deaf people.

Obviously, not everybody knows sign language, so I guess that’s why they put the captions for that part. But then the entire movie, there were no captions and I thought to myself, what’s the point of having a Deaf character? Because everyone in the world was applauding the movie and the fact that they represented someone who was Deaf, which I think is a great thing, but I thought there’s so much room, you could have also just included captions for the entire movie, so yeah.

Carmen de Castro:

An example that I wanted to share, and see what you guys thought, was, I don’t know if you’ve seen Sex Education, in the last season there was a Deaf actress, and I think they represented it very well. I don’t know if you guys saw the show, if you have any thoughts on it?

Bobbie Solkhon:

I have watched it and I think it’s a really great example of incidental representation. I go on about this so many times in the PG landscape, of having you have a Deaf character and it’s their whole life and whole personality is not being Deaf. It’s they are Deaf and they are a person, not their disability.

And I remember they did a scene where the fire alarms went off, and obviously it had the Deaf character sat there because obviously you can’t hear things like that. I’ve got high frequency loss, I can’t hear sirens, I can’t hear alarms. So when there is a fire, I don’t know.

And it was like everyone left the room and then she was kind of sat there, what’s going on? And then was like, guys, what’s going on? And I think it is a good example of showing kind of, I wouldn’t even call it daily struggles, but just daily things that would happen without absolutely being, or like she mentioned in the first episode, “oh you need to face me so I can lipread you”, and it was just such a good example of how you can portray these characters and have the Deaf awareness in there, and it’s subtly, not their whole personality as sometimes it becomes in these shows and movies and things.

Carmen de Castro:

So how do you think it’s evolved in terms of in the media? How do you think it’s changed over the years, the representation of the Deaf community? Because the film that you mentioned I think is quite recent.

Toyosi Alexis:

Yeah, it was last year. I think I watched it last year. Yeah, I watched it last year and it was nice. It’s actually like a continuation. So that wasn’t the first Creed movie. I think Creed goes back to years ago. So there’s Creed one, creed two, and then creed three.

I just thought that it was really great seeing the fact that they’re considering other people, who don’t look like the everyday people and don’t have the experiences, same experiences as people that you just see, and hearing people basically.

So I think over the past couple years I definitely think it’s gotten a lot better. I think it’s mainly focused on representation though, which isn’t a bad thing. And by representation I just mean getting a Deaf model or a Deaf character, a Deaf actress, Deaf actor, just slapping them on the campaign, which isn’t a bad thing, but I think it’s so much more than that. There’s so much room for improvement, especially because with media there’s a lot of technology involved.

When I was doing a lot of research a couple months ago, just into disability, the World Health Organisation actually predicts that by 2030, 2.5 billion people will need, disabled individuals will need assistive technologies, but a billion of them will lack it. And I think that’s such a huge percentage.

So even though Deaf characters are being portrayed in the media, I think it’s very important for brands, organisations and companies to invest in the technologies that will help Deaf people, whether it’s through captions, or not even just Deaf people, but also Disabled people, alt texts on images, audio descriptions, different things to help Disabled people.

I think it’s very important when you also think about flashing images and those different things that affect Disabled people on a daily basis. I definitely think that there’s room for improvement, but I think it’s definitely changed because when I was younger, I didn’t see anyone in the media. I always say this that I didn’t know anyone who was young, who liked other things, who had different interests that was also Deaf as well, especially Deaf women. But we’ll get into that later.

Carmen de Castro:

Yeah. So when you were talking about doing it just for the sake of representation, and kind of tick a box exercise, do you guys think that whether it’s a film, a show or a brand, does it just for the sake of doing it, instead of authentically doing it and involving the community, can you guys tell?

Bobbie Solkhon:

I think you can definitely tell when a script has been written by someone who is Deaf, or a Deaf consultant has worked on the script, or if it’s done by someone who’s hearing. And this is no shade, but a lot of hearing people don’t realise just little things that do happen when you’re Deaf, and day-to-day things that are kind of normal for a Deaf person, but obviously a hearing person wouldn’t clock things like that and the mannerisms that come with it.

Toyosi Alexis:

Yeah, I definitely think you can tell when the Deaf representation in the media is not authentic. I think for me the best indicator is when there’s no continuation after whatever campaign it is that they’ve done. You see a lot of disability consultancy agencies nowadays working with different organisations.

I think tilted lens they worked with British Vogue and they released different Disabled people on the cover of the magazine. I think the issue was last year, and after that Vogue pledged to work closely with the Royal National Institute for the Blind, even though that’s not deafness, it’s the idea behind having that continuation behind whatever it is that you’re doing.

So had they just released that and then not done anything after that, I would be like, that’s not really authentic. It’s a step in the right direction, but if there’s no actual help for the community or just trying to represent Deaf people and not trying to represent Deaf people for themselves, not trying to be the one because you find a lot of hearing people trying to tell the stories of Deaf people, but I think you should let Deaf people tell their stories because it’s only better if someone who has actually lived through those experiences can give their perspective.

Carmen de Castro:

So something that is quite connected to representation and getting involved in those things is accessibility. So I wanted you to tell me a bit about how that looks to you in your everyday life, work life, if there are any features or things that you use that help you, what’s your day to day?

Bobbie Solkhon:

I think my day to day is, I always joke that I’m the laziest Deaf person you will meet, because where I work from home, I’m at home, no one’s there. I have my hearing aids out, and then when I go to dance, I’ll just wear my hearing aids and then people are shocked that I can hear music. And it’s, I think the best play with anything with accessibility with Deaf people is just to ask them and not assume, because I get it all the time.

If anyone ever sees me without my hearing aids on and then I tell people I’m Deaf, they just go, ‘oh, so you’re hard of hearing?’ I’m like, no, I’m Deaf, but I can lip read and I can sign. So just because I’ve not got necessarily hearing aids on doesn’t mean that I can’t communicate in other ways and things like that.

So I think the best thing, like me personally, is just ask me. Because sometimes different days I’ll just switch up what actually works for me. Some days I’ll use sign language and then some days I’ll use hearing aids. Some days I’ll use captions and it is just whatever I’m feeling that day.

It could be tiring as well because I live in a very hearing world. My family are hearing, my friends are hearing, I have deaf friends and I have friends that are hearing but know a little bit of sign. So being kind of bilingual in a way can be so tiring sometimes.

I remember I got a flight from the Maldives the other last month and I actually had a sign language interpreter on my flight, but I was just so tired from travelling and just so overwhelmed for the airport -we’re not even going to go there, it was the most overwhelming experience ever going for this airport as a Deaf person and they just had no Deaf awareness at all-.

So by the time I got on the plane, I just wanted to lip read because I just forgot sign language in a way. I was that just discombobulated, if that’s the word. I was just, I don’t know what sign language is, even though I do know it, I just couldn’t do it that time. So at the time, yeah, on paper I do know sign language, but I was just so overwhelmed I was like, you know what, this now works for me.

And that’s what I actually did say to my interpreter. I was like, ‘look, can I just lip read you right now?’ Because I was like, my brain just can’t switch from spoken English to my mum who I went with, to then sign language again, and back and forth. I was just like, I actually can’t do it. So I think yeah, definitely ask because it can change.

Toyosi Alexis:

Yeah, I would say in terms of my accessibility needs are mostly captions and I lip read a lot. So you can imagine during covid that was so difficult with the introduction of wearing masks and everything, it was really difficult. But nowadays, I would say that definitely ask people what they need and always be willing to provide them.

I feel like people try to justify it with saying, ‘oh, is it reasonable accommodation or adjustment or not?’ And even though that’s what the law states, these are people’s needs and whatever people require, I think that companies and brands should always be willing to give it to them.

Also, I don’t have them right now because they’re getting repaired, but I wear these phone app bluetooth hearing aids and with them I find them really helpful for myself because when for instance, it comes with an app and when I’m in a restaurant I’m able to tune it to a restaurant setting, the same so it actually focuses on the person in front of me or when I’m listening to music or when I’m at a concert, it has different settings.

And I find that really cool just how technology is evolving nowadays. And I know that they also come with this technology that enables you to put something in the middle of a table, let’s say in a corporate setting and it focuses on the person in front of you. So yeah, I think those are my accessibility needs, but it also differs per person.

Bobbie Solkhon:

I love showing people my app on my phone that just don’t understand it. Like wow, when I’m like, right when I’m in a restaurant, I could do this, I could do this setting that when I turn my head, it’ll focus on whoever’s talking and then I can show them that I can literally just turn them off.

I’m like, there’s a baby crying on the train. I’m like, no problem, turn it off. But the best things are when I’m in an argument because I just go like this and all my family and everyone that’s in my daily life know that I could just win an argument by turning off my hearing aids, and it’s just like I’m done with the conversation, bang, nothing you can say because I can’t hear it.

Toyosi Alexis:

My parents actually are like that too. I used to do it when I was younger, when I would argue with my siblings, I would literally just turn off my hearing aids and I would just be standing there and they would be venting. And I think midway through the vent they realise, wait, she can’t hear. It’s the biggest flex, honestly.

Bobbie Solkhon:

Yeah.

Carmen de Castro:

Something to you, that you kind of mentioned at the start, but I wanted to go more in depth with you is how do you feel about having an authentic representation of being Deaf, taking into account like intersectionalities as well? How can the media ensure that that is authentically done and it’s actually good representation of the different experiences of being Deaf and what comes with that?

Toyosi Alexis:

It’s funny because when I did a dissertation a couple years ago when I left uni, I did it on whether the law makes the equality act, makes provisions for Deaf women. And then I started thinking about the difference fairs within deafness. So for me, being a Black Deaf woman, I feel like it’s a very unique experience because you’re Black, you’re Deaf, and then you’re a woman. So there’s just three different layers to that.

And in the media, obviously, over the past couple years when there’s Deaf awareness week or there are different things to do with deafness, it’s always the same people that you see most times, let’s say men or if they’re a woman, they may not necessarily look like me. And I think that it’s difficult because there’s a different experience being Black and being Deaf and then being a woman.

I remember there was a case a couple years ago with a lady, and she was actually Muslim, she was somewhere and she requested a sign language interpreter, but then she was having issues communicating with a person because I think they wanted her to be in a room alone with a man.

And she explained that I can’t be alone in a room with a man because of my religious beliefs. And she was also Black and Deaf. They called her to a private room and she’s like, okay, you can question me, but can I at least have my sister here with me or another woman? And they basically just gave her so much grief, if that’s the word for that.

So yeah, I definitely think that it’s a different experience and I wish we would see more people, not just Black people, but Asians, people of colour, Indians in the media. I think that it’s important for me to highlight the perception in my community. I’m from Nigeria and growing up in Nigeria, there’s this perception that Disabled people or Deaf people are cast and they’re outcasts in society and they can’t do certain things. They can’t take up senior positions because they wouldn’t be able to do the work properly. There’s this perception where being Deaf is actually sort of hidden. It’s not embraced the way it is in the UK.

And I think that applies in general in the Black community when meeting other Black Deaf people. They also have stories where if their parents were religious, they’ve definitely taken them to pastors to be like, ‘oh, can you pray for healing for my child?’ And that affects you because you’re in a constant chase of purpose, but only when you’re able to have that story where you’re healed and everything.

And the reason why I’m really highlighting that is because I feel like the perception even affects our community being represented because for instance, I’m pretty sure their stories where people, let’s say media companies might have approached Black Deaf people or Black Disabled people and they might shy away from it. I know that if you asked me a couple years ago before I wrote a letter to my hearing loss, I might not have been willing to do that because I wasn’t, wasn’t confident in my skin and in who I am as a person. So yeah, that’s what I would say.

Bobbie Solkhon:

Even I’ve had a little bit of a similar experience, because when I first went Deaf, it was seen as a tragedy because I couldn’t work out why I got sent to hearing therapy and I basically, where you get taught how to talk, and it was because I slowly was becoming and having a deaf accent, they would literally teach me how to speak as if I’m hearing, and I didn’t actually wear hearing aids until I was 21 years old because it was like everything the people around me, all the audiologists, doctors, they kind of did make out that it was a thing to be ashamed of, to be Deaf, when it is not a case.

It was a bad thing when even going back to the TV thing, it’d be so great for even a soap or drama to be like, ‘oh, your child’s gone Deaf. Congratulations. Here’s a culture, here’s a community, here’s a language that they can just embrace and so much added to their life about being Deaf’ rather than being a tragedy because there was no one at the time in the media that I knew was young and Deaf, I didn’t really know anyone my age that was Deaf.

So I was a bit like, oh, if I wear these hearing aids, I’m going to be singled out. Where now I think it’s come so far, we are still not there, but you’ve got people in the media that do wear hearing aids that are young, and my advice to anyone who is young and loses their hearing is to get on social media because that’s kind of what dealt for me. I followed Deaf people that were young and just actually taught myself what is fine. And that’s why I then got hearing aids and wear them and I don’t really care now.

I get people messaging me on Instagram going, well, how are you so confident? It’s because you will just come to a day where you just won’t care what people say because at the end of the day is to benefit you, it’s not to benefit anyone else. So I think the medical model makes it so such a bad thing, losing my hearing when actually you’ve gained a language, you’ve gained a culture, a community. It is actually a good thing rather than a tragedy that is always made out to be.

Carmen de Castro:

What would you say, if you had to explain what the Deaf community is and everything that it involves, and like you were saying, the Deaf culture, how would you explain it to people and what does it mean to you?

Bobbie Solkhon:

I think to me it’s just like another world in a way because I live in a hearing world, and then whenever I sign or I meet up with my Deaf friends, or anything to do with deafness, I just feel like it’s another world in a way, which sounds so weird, but yeah. You’ve got deaf football, you’ve got deaf pubs where people go and it’s just in a normal pub, it’s not necessarily just a deaf pub, but it’s like you go there and everyone talks in sign language and everyone there is deaf and it’s like that kind of.

I feel like nowadays it’s really hard to make friends, especially when you’re older, but when you’re Deaf, you’ve got all these people around you and everyone is so supportive. Everyone I’ve ever met or spoke to has always been really supportive. There’s never been that animosity. So it is just a whole community.

We’ve got our own language, we’ve got deaf schools, we’ve got deaf pubs, we’ve got our own football kind of league, and it’s just so much more than a disability just to be proud of and embrace and not make it your personality, but it does become part of your life rather than just, oh, you can’t hear. Well, actually.

So kind of going back to what I was saying a minute ago of when it’s portrayed in the media, it’s always like, oh my God, what can I do to cure them? What’s the cure for it when actually it should be congratulating him? Here’s everything that you could just embrace and gain from it rather than what you’ve lost in a way.

Toyosi Alexis:

Yeah, I think there’s so many layers to being deaf. I think that the community that we have is just extremely beautiful. Thinking about the community that I’ve built on my social media, literally Instagram from sharing my own story, people who are parents of young children who are Deaf, reaching out, being like, oh my God, my daughter starts school this week, I’m wondering whether I should send her with her hearing aids or not. And I’m like, send her with the hearing aids if she needs them. Don’t get her into a mindset of shying away from this part of who she is because it’s so beautiful and there’s so many cool layers to it.

I think it’s also beautiful just seeing the way everyone is so different, and I really hope that that’s championed over the next couple years because I feel like people think that there’s just one way of being Deaf or one dimension of it, but there’s so many different dimensions.

Bobbie, if she wants to sign, she can sign. If she wants to speak, she can speak. If she wants to lip read, she can do that. The same for me, if I want to lip read, if I want to use captions. Allow people to decide the way that they want to show up best because that’s the authentic part of being Deaf. It’s not dictating to Deaf people how they should act, should communicate what they should do, how they should show up, what jobs they should do. It’s allowing them to take up space in different industries, whether retail, beauty, technology, marketing, there’s so many different layers to it.

I have a friend, Sarah, she’s actually an audiologist, and I think it’s so cool because growing up, if I went to the doctors or went to the audiologist, I would have felt so much more comfortable if I was dealing with someone who was also Deaf themselves, but I didn’t really have that. So I just love how everyone is showing up and taking up space in different industries. It’s such a beautiful thing.

Carmen de Castro:

I have some kind of final questions for you. So one is around what we were talking about, authentic representation in the media and brands. What will be kind of like your tips and what would you say how to do those things authentically and how to represent the deaf community authentically? Kind of like top tips.

Bobbie Solkhon:

The most important, number one, is caption your content. Because if it’s not got captions on, then there’s no point doing it really because you’re just like somewhere, I can’t remember what percentage of people that are deaf, but it is very high. I think it’s like 20% of the population are Deaf.

Carmen de Castro:

It’s like 12 million people.

Bobbie Solkhon:

Yeah, 12 million people you are excluding. So if you’ve not got captions on it, you’re missing out. And then I think continuity is key. Don’t just do one thing and it’s tick box, it’s done because it’s just tokenistic where if it’s continuous, I said it in the vlog recently, like EE constantly for the last two years have done work with the Deaf community and it’s constant. It’s not that one campaign and it’s like, oh, oh yeah, we’ve done that one campaign. We’ve done something like sometimes it’s not enough. You’ve got to keep, just keep doing it, keep celebrating, keep including us. And yeah, I think continuity and captions are my two biggest tips.

Toyosi Alexis:

Yeah, yeah, definitely. I think definitely captioning your content, including audio descriptions and transcripts where necessary, or not where necessary, all the time. I think that when even for instance, shopping online and you have a video where someone is talking about your products, include captions on the video because there’s absolutely no point of you having Deaf people in your campaign and trying to represent deaf people through the people that you slap on the cover of your campaigns if you are not even making the entire shopping journey online smooth for them.

And I think I started thinking about it mainly because I also work in e-commerce at the moment, and I’m constantly thinking about it not just for Deaf people, but also Disabled people, blind people, ensuring that there’s alt text on all images, ensuring that there’s a warning sign if they’re flashing images. All of those things are so important.

Another thing I would say is hire Deaf people. Don’t just try to represent us. Bring us into those rooms where big decisions are being made and try and champion people. I think what you guys are doing is really cool, by the way, mainly because when starting out my career, I don’t think I had, there weren’t many agencies that were targeted at representing disabled people in the media, in brands and organisations. And so I think it’s just so important.

Another thing I would say, what else will I say? I’ve tried to think captions, bringing Deaf people into the rooms. I guess in bringing Deaf people into the rooms, you’re also allowing them to tell their stories. I think storytelling is so important. It sounds like something so basic, but the way I’ve been able to grow and reach other people has been through the art of storytelling, through telling my stories.

Other people have been able to come and be like, oh my God, how are you this confident? How do you own your disability in the way that you do? And through that, they’ve also learned and also gone on to share their stories, and this just helps so many people. Yeah, I think that’s it. And also sign language interpreters ensure that they’re there for the people that need them in those rooms, in those spaces. Don’t shy away from asking Deaf people what they need because everyone’s so different and has different needs.

Bobbie Solkhon:

I think on the sign language interpreter comment as well, it’s so important as well say, it’s on a stage to have them on the stage, not on a corner in the side. So that you can’t see what’s going on. Normally, say at a concert, you pay to see the artist, but then you’ve got to look that way to see the interpreter.

And it’s so little things like, yeah, you’ve got an interpreter, but it’s so important that you think about where you’re putting it. Same with captions where you put that because if, I don’t know if I want to see Beyonce, I don’t want to be looking over there, but Beyonce’s over there. Don’t just do things, but also think about things as well.

Outro (36:09):

Carmen de Castro:

Any final bits that you’d like to say or any shoutouts that you’ll like to give to? Any brands or creators are doing good things online?

Toyosi Alexis:

I think, I would say just to any young Deaf person out there who might be watching this, you are unique just the way you are and you have value to add to this world, no matter how people make you feel. So whatever thing that you’re good at or that you want to venture into, do it and do it with confidence, but also do it afraid.

Sometimes I feel like we’re waiting for that moment where we finally feel so comfortable in our skin and in our disabilities before we take up space. But you can take up space now, not waiting for that moment where you finally feel confident. Confidence is a journey, and for me, it’s come over the past few years of doing what I’ve been doing and telling my story. So yeah, that’s what I would say.

Bobbie Solkhon:

I think I would say just, especially to brands, just embrace it in your company culture to be representative is the word. I think it’s a different word. As I said before, EE, they’ve put that into their whole brand culture, especially with not just deaf football, but with actual football. The lioness has had BSL on their back and now they’re actually auctioning off those tops in raising money for deaf charities and things like that.

People like Strongbow, last year when we did Brighton Pride, it was on the stage and that was the first thing I was like, yes, yes, it was on the stage that you could watch all the amazing drag performers and singers and you could also watch the sign language. And no matter where you was in that yard, you could see the interpreter. We had a section that was for people who wanted the BSL, but you didn’t have to go there. You could be anywhere. Or brands like Barbie, last year, I think it was, they brought out the doll with the hearing aid.

Toyosi Alexis:

I thought that was really cool

Bobbie Solkhon:

And it’s pink, so I best believe I bought it for my niece Mia, and she was like, oh look, it’s like you. And I was just like, oh yeah, it was pink. And I mean it fell off. But I did have stickers on my hearing aids at the time that made them pink. So my niece has this doll and she thinks it’s like me, which I think is really cute that even though she’s five, she’s getting that kind of just representation and then she’s going to grow up just to be inclusive and stuff. It’s just going to be second nature to her, which we didn’t have when I was younger, but we do now.

Carmen de Castro:

Thank you so much. I’ve learned a lot. It’s been great hearing your experiences and everything.

And for anyone watching, listening, I hope you learned something today. If you’re a brand, if you want to work with us, you know where to go. You can also follow Toyosi. But yeah, thank you so much for watching and listening and celebrate the Deaf community every day by the way. And see you soon.